Shifting without the clutch?

SRAD97750

Moderator
Staff member
There are two physical gears (cogs) for every "gear" in the transmission. One is the "driver" gear and the other is the "driven" gear. Obviously the engine (front) is typically the driver of the motorcycle so the wheel side (rear) of the transmission is the "driven" side.
Each of these gears (cogs) is on their respective shaft (driver/driven) which is connected directly to either the engine (driver) or the countersprocket/wheel (driven).
Constant mesh type transmissions are exactly that. The driver and driven gears are constantly together. The gears themselves never leave engagment from each other. The forks simply slide them over on the driver shaft and driven shaft to engage them.
"Dogs" or "Pins" are the engagement devices. Simple towers protruding from the faces of the gears. These engage into recesses on the adjacent face which is connected to the shaft. Once engaged fully the engine will now drive the wheel in that "gear."

OK...
So really, this thread is all about this engagement.
Lets define some things first.
LOAD - The pressure on the gear teeth, and more importantly, the dogs. Load is developed from the DIFFERENCE between the engine and the wheel. When accelerating or decelerating using the engine, you are creating load. The harder you accel/decel the greater the load.
SPEED OF ENGAGEMENT - The speed of the gear SHAFTS is what's important here. When the driver and driven shafts reach the same speed, THEN engagement is allowed. If they aren't going the near the same rpm, the dogs won't line up with their recesses. The shafts are directly connected to the clutch and the rear wheel.
NEUTRAL THROTTLE - When the engine is neither accelerating or decelerating.

OK OK OK OK... :picard: I can't believe that was just the setup... :picard:
The clutch is a tool that releases the load by allowing the driver shaft to freespin with the driven shaft. This makes the load near zero allowing you to shift at any engine speed. The engine is completely removed from the equation.
When you use the clutch to shift to the next gear, whether racing MX or putting around camp, the driver shaft follows the rear wheels speed. This allows engagement. When you re-engage the clutch in a different gear the engine rpm will "match" the rear wheel speed and the engine rpm will be effected either up or down.

When you dip off the throttle and smoothly release the load (neutral throttle) on the dogs, since all the gears ride on the same shafts, the change is linear and has little to no rotation. If you are hard on the gas and dip too quickly or don't dip enough, the gears still have load which grinds away at the dogs depending on the severity of the load.

So, my 24.5 cents is this...
If you properly "neutral throttle" the engine and shift at the most opportune moment, I believe the wear is minimal. I have been doing it for 9 years (25 bikes), and haven't had a bike slip out of gear.
ALSO, I truly believe that you cannot race MX HARD and shift with no clutch and have zero wear. In fact, if you just slammed it over and over without dipping the throttle, I would expect missing dogs. Period.
You rip it off it's ass, expect wear... :picard:

I will split the WR in a year or two and we'll see what 57 hp does to a yamaha dog without using the clutch... :smirk:
-BIG DAN:thumb:

NO. If you utilize the engine properly while shifting, there is NO need for the clutch and absolutely no "extra" wear.

Because....
A clutch only releases the load between gears to allow shifting between gears.
If you relieve the engine load on the transmission with the "neutral" throttle YOU ARE DOING THE SAME THING.

I have not found a manual transmission (truck, car, bike) that you couldn't shift seamlessly without the clutch.
Sorry,
These threads* always end up more confusing then a woman... Let the games begin.
*Examples:
Engine break in
2T vs. 4T
"powerbands"
Engine Oils
o-ring vs. non o-ring.
 
Good Post Dan! :thumb: My 2 cents to everyone that is not using the clutch to shift......................You that lazy you can't pull the clutch in while shifting?
 
haha good post dan. If i dont have time to use the clutch while coming out of a corner and about to hit a jump i just shift. haha
 
haha good post dan. If i dont have time to use the clutch while coming out of a corner and about to hit a jump i just shift. haha
I don't make a habit of not using it but won't if it calls for evasive maneuvers... :devil: ... where all my reactions are towrds getting out of a jam or ??? like in too high a gear and unexpectedly need a lower one... Other than that... I clutch it! :prof:
 
Great post Dan. The only time I don't use it is when up shifting in the air and coming into turns. The reason is because, like James said, it make the bike more stable. Plus I think it keeps the engine breaking consistent and I don't have the skill to use the clutch in the air lol. So your saying I should stop doing that? I change my tranny oil all the time and it all ways looks fresh with no metal in it. Also I ride this one track all the time that is 3rd gear only and I NEVER shift. Do you think my 3rd gear is more warn than the others? Any info is much appreciated.
 

SRAD97750

Moderator
Staff member
So your saying I should stop doing that? I change my tranny oil all the time and it all ways looks fresh with no metal in it.
Nope, Do what works best. That's what racing is all about. Eventually you may have more wear than the next guy if you shift really hard without the clutch.

Also I ride this one track all the time that is 3rd gear only and I NEVER shift. Do you think my 3rd gear is more warn than the others? Any info is much appreciated.
Maybe very minimally. The dogs won't wear at all if you stay in one gear. The cog teeth are pretty tough items that are constantly meshed, so the wear is minimal.
 
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