Other SNEEZE 163fml (CHINAZAKI)

SRAD97750

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Staff member
With almost guaranteed ridicule from the Kawak Boys in the Kawak Forum, I post this here in "Other". Because, really the purpose of this thread is for discussion of the Lifan 200cc 163FML-169FML and it's possible Intake/exhaust mods and configurations.
Lots of folks buy one or happen apon a Lifan 200cc vertical engine badged 163fml or 169fml. I was given mine free of charge. I went out and found a MAN sized mini. The 1984 Kawasaki KX80 fit me nice and had a simple enough frame to modify for jamming in the enormous 69lb vertical. Hooray! :bonk:"There is no replacement for displacement.":bonk:

LIFAN 163fml and 169fml have approximatly the same displacement. 197-198cc. One engine is over square (169fml) and the other is just about perfectly square (163fml). The square motor 163 will be a beautiful balance of horsepower and torque. Lots of low end and a powerful yet short top end. Maybe 8500-9000rpm redline.

Now an "over square" engine 169 has a shorter stroke then bore. These engines will rev more easily and have a higher powerband setting (500rpm). Maybe 9000-9500rpm redline. But the downsides are less torque (negligible), and less engine braking. The engine will spin very freely and have more of a "rush" of power rather then a "lump". On the road. The LF200III (streetbike)has the 169fml. In the dirt you want more lump out of the corners with the 163fml.

THIS IS MINE, 163fml BADGED LIFAN




Stay tuned to this thread for extensive CARB JET VS. EXHAUST SYSTEM TUNING.:thumb:
Multiple carbs, multiple exhaust systems, extensive jet kits, lots of trial and error. This is going to be fun.:banana: I'm going to try porting the heads. Give me some MOD ideas and i'll give anything a try. Let's do some nasty uncontrollable wheelies!

Here is the is an example of how nice and neat (or messy) the wiring can be for a Lifan 200cc. First and foremost! The diagram is important and people are always looking for it. Here is the one I found on hooperimports.com. I have no permanent battery for weight savings so, I have edited out the voltage regulator/rectifier by terminating the pink and yellow wires from the engine side. The engine will run no problem set up like the first or second Image.





Once you have tried running the engine with no motor mounts or real exhaust the wiring may look something like this:bonk:



So clean yourself up and buy some connectors and find an old, multi pin connector. Put it together So that one side of the harness is all engine and the other side is frame components. I suggest using a multimeter to check all connections for continuity and then low resistance. Make sure your connections can handle being shaken to death on your bike.
Then you should have a sweet, neat, and tidy harness like so...







These should tuck away nicely so that I will never have to think about them again. This is a vital step in assuring your mods are not bugged by wiring problems in the future.
MORE TO COME. ENGINE BREAK IN VIDEOS. FRAME DE/RE CONSTRUCTION. I'LL CATCH YOU UP WITH WHERE I'M AT NOW AND WE CAN BEGIN THIS EXPERIMENT. STAY TUNED AND PLEASE SUBMIT SUGGESTIONS FOR MODS.
-BIG DAN
 

SRAD97750

Moderator
Staff member
Here I have the build pictures. We cut the frame into pieces at the subframe, side frame, and lower foreward engine mounts.
I DID NOT CUT THE BACKBONE. (NEVER CUT THE BACK BONE OF A BIKE UNLESS YOU ARE A "HOT SHOT" WELDER.)
Also, I added a few inches to the foreward and side frame legs to accomodate the vertical engine.





Fabricated (purchased) a 1/8" X 6" X 9" steel base plate for $1.09. Cut 1/8" slots into tubing and welded plate securely on top and bottom of frame tubing. Set engine in place where chain and sprockets line up the best at all suspension loads. Also note carburetor and throttle cable location and clearances. Also check exhaust clearance. Once all clearances are appropriate, mark base plate for four mount bolts. Which are convieniently located on the bottom of the engine. The use rubber motor mounts between base plate and engine will dramatically cut down on vibration but are not needed for sweet operation.







Weld frame back together as straight as possible. Ours is only off at the subframe by about a 1/2".:moon:



Next throw on some risers and a hook for the stock KX80 fuel tank and seat, in such a way that the petcock doesn't touch or pinch the fuel tube on the cylinder head.
VERY IMPORTANT! If you make motor mounts like the ones in the picture they will fail. Construct a Dual Path mount and intall with good welds. These will require rotating the engine foreward for removal/installation. SWEET!:banana:




Welded some slotted tubing for extra support for the base plate and so, if a crash occurs I will not be maimed by my own motorcycle.



Lifan spark plug shows near perfect combustion with a light tan color from all throttle positions. Great low end grunt allows throttle-only wheelies in third. Lacks power on top end due to small carb and open exhaust.









Starting is easy. You can kick start first or second attempt or the electric start is operational.



-BIG DAN:thumb:
 

SRAD97750

Moderator
Staff member
We stripped the bike back down to nothing. This entire bike had light rust on the surface so we wire wheeled this frame and swingarm to death. Covered the bearings and mating surfaces with tape. Shot gloss black and waited till tacky. Shot 3 coats of gloss clear coat. We also clearcoated the sunburned green fairings. It brought a nice shine to them.
Why paint it? I'm just going to dip it in mud tomorrow!!!
Corrosion prevention on welds and scratches. Also, dust and grease have nothing to stick to, and I'll be able to hose it off after a nice dirty ride.









Paint has hardened and bike reassembled. Looks way better. Ready for some SNEEZE stickers.

Newest MOD:
Threw a K&N cone filter on the 20mm carburetor because it was sucking some amount of dirt in. Totally lost the (already short/breathless) top end power due to further intake restriction. On the other hand the VERY bottom end is vauge now. The mid range grew by 1K rpms twords the top end. It feels like its slower and as if I need to shift quicker. Despite my doubts, the motor is easier to use now throughout the extended mid range. Down nearly 5 seconds from the end of break in.

I have been recording lap times around this track my brother and I made. We know the track very well and our reported times on this thread are averaged over 3 rolling laps (No drag/holeshot starts, as it would make times less reliable/accurate).

11/11/09 With no air filter, open header, 20mm carb, 20psi tire pressure, and 75F sunny, 5 eng hrs. (44.5 sec)
11/30/09 K&N cone filter, open header, 20mm carb, 12psi tire pressure, and 71F overcast, 12 eng hrs. (39.6 sec.)

Tire pressure and engine break in really chopped the time down. I firmly believe the new engine braking and fat mid makes it easier to ride fast, so it feels so much slower. I'm super happy with this base setup. I could ride it for years like this. But...
I want more top end. Period. I ride streetbikes and I want more top end rush. Let's just say, down the straights its no drag bike. I have a Mikuni 30mm and in the mail is a 38mm Mikuni ($9.99ebay). A large set of Mikuni jets ranging from 20-55pilot and 120-300 main. ($100ebay) Hopefully this will satisfy all my cravings.








MORE TO COME. This post is from 2009. I have since changed things and am Ready to Post up my findings.
-BIG DAN:thumb:
 
I'm lovin' it Dan. :thumb: With that said, instead of rattle canning it, I could sandblast, and powder coat it for you, for the cost of a huge pizza.:noidea: I know we aren't too far from each other, so if you're going to strip it down again, let me know.:ride:
 
It's not exactly a powerhouse powerplant so don't expect too much out of it unless you go all out with compression and a cam to match. I think that those engines are more or less copies of the late 70's two valve XL 175 or XR/XL 200 engines. I don't know if they copied them close enough that the Honda pistons and cams can be used.

How about the 169 piston in an overbored 163 or an oversize XR200 piston. They are all 15mm piston pin, but I don't know about the required pin to top of the piston distance.

Cool project.
 

SRAD97750

Moderator
Staff member
You are correct. It is an old style "pushrod" motor. BUT, It has great power in the much lighter KX80 frame. The donor bike was 270lbs... :eek: As is, Sneeze weighs 157lbs (wet).
So this thing is a freakin' tractor. We have put alot of great miles on it. In the last year since this thread was originally created, I have tried 3 carburetors and 3 exhaust pipes and several gearings. I think it's the GREATEST pitbike I have ever ridden.
More updating to come!!!
One day we'll get on a ride together, Cleonard, and I'll let you play on it!!! :cheers:
-BIG DAN:thumb:
 
wow awesome build Big D but, that chain looks like it is screaming tight, how long do you think the counter shaft will go?
 

SRAD97750

Moderator
Staff member
The chain is REALLY tight in those pictures. We had just reassembled after paint.
I have since put on a chain guide and everything is rollin smoothly. -BIG DAN:thumb:
 
Hi there. I've been building a bike using the Lifan 200 163FML and it has been a success much in large due to forums and threads like this one.
I have been having a hard time figuring out the best gear ratios for final drive and was hoping you could pass along any knowledge you have gained through your testing with this engine.
I currently am running 15/57 putting me at a 3.80 final ratio. It is great for the dirt but extremely annoying once I hit the road. I blast through all 5 gears in three seconds and max mph is 55-58
any in put would be great.
Thanks!

and nice build btw
 
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