How many people grip with their legs?
- Thread starter PSJBrock
- Start date
James
Staff member
I guess it depends on the type of riding you do, in motocross you're gripping more than you're not. That said you shouldn't be gripping at 100% all the time, just whatever the current situation requires.
Again it depends on your type of riding. In motocross you're technically either accelerating or braking, there's no coasting (unless you're me
). The exception is while you're in the air, that's when you relax and take a 1-2 second breather. 
I guess it depends on the type of riding you do, in motocross you're gripping more than you're not. That said you shouldn't be gripping at 100% all the time, just whatever the current situation requires.
Again it depends on your type of riding. In motocross you're technically either accelerating or braking, there's no coasting (unless you're me
more often then not when riding the desert or even the forest visibility is poor do to dust or high bushes. when im pushing it (which is most of the time trying to follow some of these DBA guys) i grip as much as i can. to many times in the past i hit a whoop or some shit that almost bucks me over the bars.
my wife always grips with her legs
.......
I did race Pro MX. Including a #1 plate in Nor Cal CMC MX and a #2 plate in AMA D36(Rodney Smith was #1) I do ride with former AMA National and World Champions in both Off Road and MX. I may have a #1 plate in AMA/D36 Cross Country and perhaps one or more AMA/D36 #1 plates in Enduro?
When watching a AMA National MX on TV. Concentrate on the riders knee position. It is NOT gripping a fixed location on the bike. If one was "always" gripping the bike with ones knees. The grip point would never change.
The basics; When accelerating the rider is in a more forward position, the exception would be slick conditions when the rider is trying to find more traction by getting some weight on the rear tire.
Braking the rider moves to the rear of the bike, as speed reduces one would move forward to weight the front tire, as you move thru the apex of the turn.
60-70 mph plus, one can lean forward into the wind and balance against the wind pressure.
The "balanced" position one should maintain changes depending on many factors, for example acceleration, braking, downhill, uphill...Many suggest that one should just lock on "all the time". I say BS. That grip point changes all the time. It is more a squeeze and release, to reset ones grip point.
You can do a quick and easy test right at your desk. Stand up, feet footpeg width. Your balanced, right? Now put your hands on your desk and lean on the desk. Feel the pressure on the palms of your hands? Your not balanced, your leaning on the desk. Now stand up again, bend forward, maintaining your balance, (core muscles should be used) now put your hands just above the desk or very lightly touching the desk. You should be able to lift you hands up and maintain balance. If you have solid railing or your truck bed, something you can pull on you can do the same test leaning back. Just grap the bar in front you and lean back. You should feel pressure on your fingers, like hanging from a pull up bar. Now stand up straight and move your hips back, as you bend your knees. Reach out like your going to grap the bar, but do NOT grap it. You should be in a squat position, "balanced" with your hands just litely touching the bar. No pressure on your fingers. Easy to move your fingers since you don't need them to hang on to the bar. What you are using is leg and core muscles to maintain your balance.
This is how one should hold the bars, a nice lite grip. If your out of position, not balanced on the bike. You must hold on with a death grip or squeeze the bike. Your getting worked. The guy who is balanced on bike maintains a nice lite grip and has his body weight in position to work/weight the pegs.
Think about a childs teeter totter. Your weight is over the fulcrum point, one foot on either side. The kids start going up and down. To avoid falling off as one side lifts and the other side, falls. You would have maintain your balance? If you stayed vertical in relation to the board, you would fall off. If you had a bar to hold onto, one could hang on. But the guy who stand vertical to the ground and allows his legs to work, up/down would be balanced and would not need something to hang on to. Think about that board being your footpegs, rising and falling, as you introduce right and left lean angles on your bike. Now look at a pro going around a flat turn, no berm or bank. His weight is to the outside. This allows the rider to weight the outside peg at maximum lean angle when the tires begin to slip out. If his weight was located over the inside peg and he lost grip. He would not be in position to weight the outside peg as the tires are sliding away from his body weight and down he would go.
When watching a AMA National MX on TV. Concentrate on the riders knee position. It is NOT gripping a fixed location on the bike. If one was "always" gripping the bike with ones knees. The grip point would never change.
The basics; When accelerating the rider is in a more forward position, the exception would be slick conditions when the rider is trying to find more traction by getting some weight on the rear tire.
Braking the rider moves to the rear of the bike, as speed reduces one would move forward to weight the front tire, as you move thru the apex of the turn.
60-70 mph plus, one can lean forward into the wind and balance against the wind pressure.
The "balanced" position one should maintain changes depending on many factors, for example acceleration, braking, downhill, uphill...Many suggest that one should just lock on "all the time". I say BS. That grip point changes all the time. It is more a squeeze and release, to reset ones grip point.
You can do a quick and easy test right at your desk. Stand up, feet footpeg width. Your balanced, right? Now put your hands on your desk and lean on the desk. Feel the pressure on the palms of your hands? Your not balanced, your leaning on the desk. Now stand up again, bend forward, maintaining your balance, (core muscles should be used) now put your hands just above the desk or very lightly touching the desk. You should be able to lift you hands up and maintain balance. If you have solid railing or your truck bed, something you can pull on you can do the same test leaning back. Just grap the bar in front you and lean back. You should feel pressure on your fingers, like hanging from a pull up bar. Now stand up straight and move your hips back, as you bend your knees. Reach out like your going to grap the bar, but do NOT grap it. You should be in a squat position, "balanced" with your hands just litely touching the bar. No pressure on your fingers. Easy to move your fingers since you don't need them to hang on to the bar. What you are using is leg and core muscles to maintain your balance.
This is how one should hold the bars, a nice lite grip. If your out of position, not balanced on the bike. You must hold on with a death grip or squeeze the bike. Your getting worked. The guy who is balanced on bike maintains a nice lite grip and has his body weight in position to work/weight the pegs.
Think about a childs teeter totter. Your weight is over the fulcrum point, one foot on either side. The kids start going up and down. To avoid falling off as one side lifts and the other side, falls. You would have maintain your balance? If you stayed vertical in relation to the board, you would fall off. If you had a bar to hold onto, one could hang on. But the guy who stand vertical to the ground and allows his legs to work, up/down would be balanced and would not need something to hang on to. Think about that board being your footpegs, rising and falling, as you introduce right and left lean angles on your bike. Now look at a pro going around a flat turn, no berm or bank. His weight is to the outside. This allows the rider to weight the outside peg at maximum lean angle when the tires begin to slip out. If his weight was located over the inside peg and he lost grip. He would not be in position to weight the outside peg as the tires are sliding away from his body weight and down he would go.
Great Post Dave. 
+1 and I like your credentials..Great Post Dave.
James
Staff member
I think I get what you actually mean and that we're actually on the same page, your previous post was just confusing.
You are gripping the bike all the time, just not in the same spot, right?
I'm still confused by this though. You're still gripping the bike just not always in the same position? Accelerate/decelerate while standing, with your legs providing no pressure against the bike (not gripping the bike), and you won't need your arms to support yourself?
When I say "grip the bike" I mean using your legs to put pressure against the bike (not necessarily in a fixed position). How would you define "gripping the bike" in one sentence?
+1 on "Great Post."
I try to stay balanced, but somehow the death griping and getting worked happens way to often for me. Maybe I need to work on my trail selection and not choose the rock garden or way too narrow cliff edge type of trails. It's pretty easy to be properly balanced on the nice flowing singletrack. Too bad that's an endangered species where I live.
I try to stay balanced, but somehow the death griping and getting worked happens way to often for me. Maybe I need to work on my trail selection and not choose the rock garden or way too narrow cliff edge type of trails. It's pretty easy to be properly balanced on the nice flowing singletrack. Too bad that's an endangered species where I live.
No. Waste of energy. grip when needed for the situation. For example hard braking, I move my body weight back stiffen/extend arms and grip the bike with my knees, then squeeze the front brake hard. This reduces the pressure on the palms of my hands as my legs do more of the work to maintin my rearward position on the bike. Keeping my hands lose and relaxed to work the controls. Following the intial hard braking as I am easing off the brake approaching the apex I loosing my knee grip and arms and move forward to weight the front tire. Understand that while back and braking your loading the front tire, but as you release the front brake it unloads the front tire. One needs to transition some body weight forward to keep the front tire weighted or planted. This was one of Bubbas issues with the Yamaha, he had to adjust and get more weight further forward. If you watched the race on Saturday, from Spring Creek. Those bikes were moving all around. You can see air between the riders knees and the bike at times. They allowed the bike to move. If they had a tight squeeze it would be like a kick boxer knocking your legs out from under you when the bike makes such an abrupt swap. By riding lose, the bike moves and you are warned that the bike is stepping out and you have the opportunity to weight the pegs and move your weight to stay in balance over the bike. Watch Dungey in the Monstor whoops, focus on his knees. His knees are moving forward and back as the bike rocks, front wheel, down/up. Would you say he is gripping the bike? If he did grip his knees would remain locked in one spot. So as the front dips his weight would be pulled forward. In the sand as one G's out do you really want to have your weight pulled forward at that moment? Not me. Same thing with the front high. Jeff Emig describes Dungeys riding as calm on the bike. He is looking at the riders head and shoulders. If you isolated the video on the head and shoulders are they moving around a lot? Now below the shoulders a lot of leg and core muscle work is going on. The bike moving all around.
The top riders are pushing right to the edge and they are managing an out of control state. The bike takes a sudden and unexpected deflection, how did they save it? It is all about balance and having ones weight in a position to react. Look at Alessi's first lap swap, how did he safe it? Who would suggest that, had he maintain a tight grip, with both legs squeezing the bike, that he would have saved it, like he did?
Some call it riding lose or fluid.
Ask yourself why Trials riders do so well when they get on a dirt bike. The understand balance. Dirt bike riders have a seat and they develop bad habits. Like hanging on and fighting ones bike. Instead of being balanced on the bike and letting the bike work/move around under you. Does a Trials rider have a tank/seat to grip with ones knees? Sure they can squeeze with the lower leg and at times they will. But do they always squeeze? I say they don't.I'm still confused by this though. You're still gripping the bike just not always in the same position? Accelerate/decelerate while standing, with your legs providing no pressure against the bike (not gripping the bike), and you won't need your arms to support yourself?
Gripping holds your knees in a fixed spot, your not gripping the bike if the bike is free to move.
James
Staff member
I think our problem is that we define "gripping" differently, when you hear it you take it to mean grip as hard as possible (your legs/knees don't move). When I hit rollers I "grip" the bike however the bike still moves under me. Now that I think about it, I don't know of any time I actually "grip" hard enough that the bike can't move.
BTW those are some very informative posts.
