Don't know or have any real techy stuff to add but, there is probably a realy good reason why they stopped making them one way for the other 
Nikasil Vs. Steel
- Thread starter SRAD97750
- Start date
We’ll start off with this…
Nikasil has better friction properties allowing the engine to spin easier. It also has far greater heat dissipation properties. This is especially important in watercooled engines where getting the heat into the water is crucial.
Sportsbikes put the high performance dirtbike engines to shame. My 1993 GSXR 750 has 14:1 compression, 15K rpm, 175+hp/1000ccs. Versus a 2013 YZ450F which is 12.5:1 compression, 10K rpm, and 115hp/1000ccs. Why does a 20 year old bike outperform a brand new ‘high performance’ machine? Also, why do sportbike engines go 50-75K miles before ring changes? That's the equivalent of 1100hrs for 1 ring change....
Which will NEVER happen if you use proper lubricants in your engine.
Let's do a side by side $$$ comparison of the two types of cylinders, in 2 different instances.
Constants
-Piston rings last 100 Hrs
-Bore Job $40
-1000 hour time frame
Situation #1
Perfect maintenance, perfect break in, ridden easy. No intake issues. No cylinder damage.
Nikasil
-1 Coating lasts 10 sets of rings (1000hrs)
Total $275/1000hrs
Steel
-Needs boring every 3 sets of rings
-Liner accepts 4 (0.5mm) bores. Pistons commonly available up to +2.0mm
-3.33 bores in 1000 hrs (we'll call it 4 and resleeve anyway)
-1 sleeve costs $150 installed professionally
Total $282/1000hrs
Situation #2
Perfect maintenance, perfect break in, ridden easy. At the 410 hour mark, an unnoticed crack between the filter and carburetor allows sand to enter the engine unfiltered. Serious cylinder scratching found at the 5th ring change(500 hrs). No other damage noted. Intake problem corrected before engine is run again.
Nikasil
-2 coatings occur within 1500hrs. One at 500hrs and again at 1500hrs provided nothing else goes wrong. Even the smallest nick requires full replating.
-Total $412.50/1000hrs (Pro rated)
Steel
-1 bore prior to cylinder scratching (300 hrs) $40
-1 bore at 500hr mark instead of 600hr mark $40
-2 borings to get to 1100hrs $80
-1 sleeve at 1100hrs $150
Total $310/1000hrs
*****************************
Situation #1 Nikasil is cheaper by $7
Situation #2 Steel is cheaper by $102.50
*****************************
So in a perfect world, Nikasil is an awesome cylinder plating that transfers heat more efficiently. Also, it won't break the bank any worse than a steel sleeve will.
IF ANYTHING GOES WRONG, ever, your fault, not your fault, act of God, improper maintenance, overlooked item....
Nikasil starts to add up in a big way. Steel is cheaper by 25% or more if you live in the imperfect world that I do.
All I have to say is, don't go out of your way to sleeve a previously plated cylinder. It's designed to react with the coolant in a certain manner and steel may possibly impede that heat transfer slightly. But, neither is inferior... -BIG DAN
Nikasil has better friction properties allowing the engine to spin easier. It also has far greater heat dissipation properties. This is especially important in watercooled engines where getting the heat into the water is crucial.
Maybe in dirtbikes, but every sportbike I have ever overhauled has had steel liners. Even my 2005 SV1000 had steel.
Sportsbikes put the high performance dirtbike engines to shame. My 1993 GSXR 750 has 14:1 compression, 15K rpm, 175+hp/1000ccs. Versus a 2013 YZ450F which is 12.5:1 compression, 10K rpm, and 115hp/1000ccs. Why does a 20 year old bike outperform a brand new ‘high performance’ machine? Also, why do sportbike engines go 50-75K miles before ring changes? That's the equivalent of 1100hrs for 1 ring change....
Read on…
I think you mean Galling. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galling
Which will NEVER happen if you use proper lubricants in your engine.
Let's do a side by side $$$ comparison of the two types of cylinders, in 2 different instances.
Constants
-Piston rings last 100 Hrs
-Bore Job $40
-1000 hour time frame
Situation #1
Perfect maintenance, perfect break in, ridden easy. No intake issues. No cylinder damage.
Nikasil
-1 Coating lasts 10 sets of rings (1000hrs)
Total $275/1000hrs
Steel
-Needs boring every 3 sets of rings
-Liner accepts 4 (0.5mm) bores. Pistons commonly available up to +2.0mm
-3.33 bores in 1000 hrs (we'll call it 4 and resleeve anyway)
-1 sleeve costs $150 installed professionally
Total $282/1000hrs
Situation #2
Perfect maintenance, perfect break in, ridden easy. At the 410 hour mark, an unnoticed crack between the filter and carburetor allows sand to enter the engine unfiltered. Serious cylinder scratching found at the 5th ring change(500 hrs). No other damage noted. Intake problem corrected before engine is run again.
Nikasil
-2 coatings occur within 1500hrs. One at 500hrs and again at 1500hrs provided nothing else goes wrong. Even the smallest nick requires full replating.
-Total $412.50/1000hrs (Pro rated)
Steel
-1 bore prior to cylinder scratching (300 hrs) $40
-1 bore at 500hr mark instead of 600hr mark $40
-2 borings to get to 1100hrs $80
-1 sleeve at 1100hrs $150
Total $310/1000hrs
*****************************
Situation #1 Nikasil is cheaper by $7
Situation #2 Steel is cheaper by $102.50
*****************************
So in a perfect world, Nikasil is an awesome cylinder plating that transfers heat more efficiently. Also, it won't break the bank any worse than a steel sleeve will.
IF ANYTHING GOES WRONG, ever, your fault, not your fault, act of God, improper maintenance, overlooked item....
Nikasil starts to add up in a big way. Steel is cheaper by 25% or more if you live in the imperfect world that I do.
All I have to say is, don't go out of your way to sleeve a previously plated cylinder. It's designed to react with the coolant in a certain manner and steel may possibly impede that heat transfer slightly. But, neither is inferior... -BIG DAN
Why is it that my low compression nikasil bike will most likely last way less than half as long as your high performance sport bike? Is it because of where it lives in the rpms?
Model: XR650R
Engine Type: 649cc liquid-cooled dry-sump single-cylinder four-stroke
Bore and Stroke: 100mm x 82.6mm
Compression Ratio: 10.0:1
Valve Train: SOHC; four-valve
Model: XR650R
Engine Type: 649cc liquid-cooled dry-sump single-cylinder four-stroke
Bore and Stroke: 100mm x 82.6mm
Compression Ratio: 10.0:1
Valve Train: SOHC; four-valve
What are the piston dimensions on your gsxr's. What is the oil capacity? (600-750cc)
Xr650r
Bore and Stroke: 100mm x 82.6mm
Oil Capacity, 1.9 liters
A single cylinder engine uses more energy to get to and maintain 65mph than a 4cylinder. Therefore there is more stress and wear on the internal engine parts. Watch a small dog try and walk next to a large dog and notice that the small dog uses 16-20 steps for every 1 step of the larger dog.
Nice little write up Dan...
the only thing I would question is the steel in sportbike cylinders as I could sware they have neen nikasiled since the early 90's. Then again the last cylinder I saw was off an 08 F6.
a dirt bike is in much tougher conditions than most street bikes will ever see. try riden your street bike in the dust silt sand mud rock water. get stuck in a rut for 10 min bouncing off the rev limiter with no cooling fan. see how long your street bike lasts in the same conditions as a dirt bike. steel liners have there place . Nikasil is a trademarked electrodeposited lipophilic nickel matrix silicon carbide coating for engine components, mainly piston engine cylinder liners.
Nikasil was introduced by Mahle in 1967, initially developed to allow rotary engine apex seals (NSU Ro 80 and Mercedes C111) to work directly against the aluminum housing. This coating allowed aluminum cylinders and pistons to work directly against each other with low wear and friction. Unlike other methods, including cast iron cylinder liners, Nikasil allowed very large cylinder bores with tight tolerances and thus allowed existing engine designs to be expanded easily. The aluminium cylinders also gave a much better heat conductivity than cast iron liners, an important attribute for a high output engine. The coating was further developed by US Chrome Corporation in the USA in the early 1990s (under the trade name of "Nicom"), as a replacement for hard-chrome plated cylinder bores for Mercury Marine Racing, Kohler Engines, and as a repair replacement for factory-chromed snowmobiles, dirt bikes, ATVs, watercraft and automotive V8 liners/bores.
Porsche started using this on the 1970 917 race car, and later on the 1973 911 RS. Porsche also used it on production cars, but for a short time switched to Alusil due to cost savings for their base 911. Nikasil cylinders were always used for the 911 Turbo and RS models. Nikasil coated aluminum cylinders allowed Porsche to build air-cooled engines that had the highest specific output of any engine of their time. Nikasil is still used in today's 911s.
Nikasil was very popular in the 1990s. It was used by companies such as Audi, BMW, Ferrari, Jaguar Cars and Moto Guzzi in their new engine families. However, the sulfur found in much of the world's low quality gasoline caused some Nikasil cylinders to break down over time, causing costly engine failures.[1]
Nikasil or similar coatings under other trademarks are also still widely used in racing engines, including those used in Formula One and ChampCar. Suzuki currently uses a race-proven nickel phosphorus-silicon-carbide proprietary coating trademarked SCEM (Suzuki Composite Electro-chemical Material) to maximize cylinder size and improve heat dissipation, e.g., on the engine of the Suzuki TL1000S, V-Strom 650, and Hayabusa motorcycles.[2]
Nikasil was introduced by Mahle in 1967, initially developed to allow rotary engine apex seals (NSU Ro 80 and Mercedes C111) to work directly against the aluminum housing. This coating allowed aluminum cylinders and pistons to work directly against each other with low wear and friction. Unlike other methods, including cast iron cylinder liners, Nikasil allowed very large cylinder bores with tight tolerances and thus allowed existing engine designs to be expanded easily. The aluminium cylinders also gave a much better heat conductivity than cast iron liners, an important attribute for a high output engine. The coating was further developed by US Chrome Corporation in the USA in the early 1990s (under the trade name of "Nicom"), as a replacement for hard-chrome plated cylinder bores for Mercury Marine Racing, Kohler Engines, and as a repair replacement for factory-chromed snowmobiles, dirt bikes, ATVs, watercraft and automotive V8 liners/bores.
Porsche started using this on the 1970 917 race car, and later on the 1973 911 RS. Porsche also used it on production cars, but for a short time switched to Alusil due to cost savings for their base 911. Nikasil cylinders were always used for the 911 Turbo and RS models. Nikasil coated aluminum cylinders allowed Porsche to build air-cooled engines that had the highest specific output of any engine of their time. Nikasil is still used in today's 911s.
Nikasil was very popular in the 1990s. It was used by companies such as Audi, BMW, Ferrari, Jaguar Cars and Moto Guzzi in their new engine families. However, the sulfur found in much of the world's low quality gasoline caused some Nikasil cylinders to break down over time, causing costly engine failures.[1]
Nikasil or similar coatings under other trademarks are also still widely used in racing engines, including those used in Formula One and ChampCar. Suzuki currently uses a race-proven nickel phosphorus-silicon-carbide proprietary coating trademarked SCEM (Suzuki Composite Electro-chemical Material) to maximize cylinder size and improve heat dissipation, e.g., on the engine of the Suzuki TL1000S, V-Strom 650, and Hayabusa motorcycles.[2]
[edit]
My 05 SV was steel, my 1990 Katana was steel, and my 1993 through 2001 GSXRs are steel. My dirtbikes are ALL steel. In fact I have owned just under 30 motorcycles in the last 10 years. Every single one, Except an 89 KTM250 (which ended up costing me over $1000 in cylinder work) is steel.
Some will say, "oh dan... you've never had a new bike in your life!" And you would be right
I live in the 90's
My 2002 YZ250 I am building up is steel.
My 2008 TE450 is nick
Bet the Beta is Nick also.
My 2008 TE450 is nick
Bet the Beta is Nick also.
My 05 SV was steel, my 1990 Katana was steel, and my 1993 through 2001 GSXRs are steel. My dirtbikes are ALL steel. In fact I have owned just under 30 motorcycles in the last 10 years. Every single one, Except an 89 KTM250 (which ended up costing me over $1000 in cylinder work) is steel.
Geez... you don't have to yell at me
SV should be steel and Katana should be steel, Gixers I'm really surprised they are steel KTM should def be nikasil and honestly every bike I have ever owned since 1986 has been Nikasil except for my Katana and my air cooled stuff...
Still doesnt mean that I know what I'm talking about 