Knee Guards

I'm assuming you only had knee guards and not braces on when it happened? I currently wear Asterisk knee braces but I'm trying to get my doc to prescribe me the DonJoy braces. He's still debating it but I think I can persuade him the next time I see him. :thumb: He's probably just hoping that I tear something up, more work for him. :smirk:
are these dr's regular ol dr's or are they specialty like just for knees or what not ?
 
I'm assuming you only had knee guards and not braces on when it happened? I currently wear Asterisk knee braces but I'm trying to get my doc to prescribe me the DonJoy braces. He's still debating it but I think I can persuade him the next time I see him. :thumb: He's probably just hoping that I tear something up, more work for him. :smirk:

Let's hope your doc doesn't think that way, lol. I know my doc hears cha-ching every time I walk through his door. :smirk::cry:

I was wearing Thor Force Knee Guards ($80/90), which I've seen advertised as both a guard and brace. IMO... they're guards. A good brace may have helped, but I'm convinced I already had a partial tear going from another injury a few weeks prior (felt the classic ACL pop). Hard to say what would've helped beyond this point, but I know not having my knee in good health at the time with better support, most likely caused more damage. What is your doc saying that makes him undecided? Does he feel the Asterik's are sufficient for your situation (you had a knee injury right?).

The DJ brace supposedly supersedes CTI's product, per my ortho. He states he's worked with both... I have no experience with either. The info I have so far is they weigh about 18oz (which is light) and their supposedly designed to support the healing ligaments by transferring energy away from the prone area, towards the quad and calf area. If you plan to wear bi-lateral braces (both knees), this makes a difference in which brace model is selected for you. As for the guard protection, this is separate and fits onto the brace for when your riding. In the event you re-injure your knee, DJ will pay $750 dollars towards your medical/deductible... I guess they want our business.

I'm on my 3rd brace, have been fitted down since my surgery and have only worn a brace when doing things that require a higher level of activity. This next brace will be my final brace that I'll use for riding/sports. I know there have been brace studies, and some say they make little to no difference in outcomes. I'm not sure what to think about this. To be accurate, it would seem everyone would have to have the exact same injury/surgery, knee mechanics/structure and/or doing the same activities. And, not everyones knees have the same history. Some people have more general wear/tear damage with/without prior injures. Not to mention, if they have other health issues (aside from the knee) that indirectly effects their health/recovery process. Seems like too many variables to be 100% conclusive, just my op.

Guards have saved my knee on impacts many times. But, a guard will not help with a twisting motion. Even a brace cannot offer complete prevention, something has to give somewhere. But, I do feel a brace/guard combo will give some support/protection to a healing injury, especially with a multiple ligament involved injury like mine and may reduce the amount of reinjury. I had a lot work done on my knee, my VMO/quad is firing about 75% right now. I'm going with their recommendation of riding with a brace... at least for the next year+ while everything continues to heal/incorporate in my knee, and most likely will make wearing a brace/guard combo a permament choice. Whether the expensive braces are truly benefical beyond the completion of healing, I think physicans have different views on this. I've have a few riding friends with no priors who will "only" ride with a brace/guard combo for prevention/protection. Hoping this new brace isn't too different from what I've been used to riding with and doesn't interfere with gripping.
 

James

Staff member
Let's hope your doc doesn't think that way, lol. I know my doc hears cha-ching every time I walk through his door. :shocked:
:lol: No he doesn't, he seems like the type that actually cares about you and your health. :ride:

What is your doc saying that makes him undecided? Does he feel the Asterik's are sufficient for your situation (you had a knee injury right?).
:devil: I haven't told him that I currently wear Asterisk braces. From what I gathered it was the cost, like I'd said before he seems like a reasonable person and won't prescribe something just for the $$$. He was concerned that my insurance might not pay for, however I checked and they will.

Yes bilateral, nothing to serious though, mostly just torn meniscus and cartilage bits floating around. Required arthroscopic surgery on to fix/clean up.

The DJ brace supposedly supersedes CTI's product, per my ortho....As for the guard protection, this is a separate attachment that fits onto the brace for when your riding. In the event you re-injure your knee, DJ will pay $750 dollars towards your medical/deductible... I guess they want our business.
Really? I always thought CTI was better, glad to hear that though as they only carry DonJoy products. Yeah I knew about the guard. :thumb: Huh never knew that they would help pay for the deductible, that's pretty cool.

I'm on my 3rd brace, have been fitted down since my surgery
They allow 1 or 2 free refits right?

I've have a few riding friends with no priors who will only wear the brace/guard combo for prevention/protection.

As for guards, again... always worn them, saved my knee on impacts many times. But, a guard will not help with a twisting motion. Even a brace cannot offer complete prevention, something has to give somewhere. But, I do feel a brace/guard combo will give some support/protection to a healing injury, especially with a multiple ligament involved injury and may reduce the amount of reinjury. I'm hoping the brace don't interfere with gripping, I'm sure it'll take some getting used to.
That's the main reason I started wearing braces, I'm more concerned about twisting my knee then impact, however impact is just as important. IMO braces also provide better impact protection, for example if you were to kick me in the knee, I wouldn't feel a thing as the load is transferred to the thigh/leg. The palatal cup is designed in a way to transfer the impact load to other parts of the brace and not directly hit the knee cap. (if that makes sense) Unlike the traditional guards that actually rest on the knee cap.

I actually thought that the braces allow me to grip harder as it doesn't hurt as much. The only bad thing is that you'll wear out your shroud graphics and pants quicker.


One other thing. Some people always say that braces will break your femur and such. Don't know if that true or not, but I've had a get off were I know I would've super hyper-extended my knee. Don't really remember how it happened but the damage was a very sore right knee, a really nasty bruise on my lower leg where the brace transferred the load, and a torn labrum in the right shoulder. It hurt like :foul: and couldn't walk on it for a day, plus that night it swelled up like a balloon and my shoulder became unbearable so off to the ER, then a specialist. :cry: Back on the bike a month and a half later.:banana: :ride:
:lol: That doc was a little different though, he was like "ahh if it doesn't hurt to bad go for it". :thumb: Sweet :smirk:
 
:lol: No he doesn't, he seems like the type that actually cares about you and your health. :ride:
Mine does too, he's just so expensive, makes me wonder sometimes. :lol:

:devil: I haven't told him that I currently wear Asterisk braces. From what I gathered it was the cost, like I'd said before he seems like a reasonable person and won't prescribe something just for the $$$. He was concerned that my insurance might not pay for, however I checked and they will.

Yes bilateral, nothing to serious though, mostly just torn meniscus and cartilage bits floating around. Required arthroscopic surgery on to fix/clean up.

It could be, he thought you didn't meet the criteria of "medical necessity" under what's considered reasonable through some insurance companies, and this is why he didn't prescribe the brace(s) for you? But, it's good your insurance will cover. I'm not sure mine will cover both, I know they will cover one of them. Either way, I'll purchase the 2nd one if I have to... I think they run $550 or $750 out of pocket.


Really? I always thought CTI was better, glad to hear that though as they only carry DonJoy products. Yeah I knew about the guard. :thumb: Huh never knew that they would help pay for the deductible, that's pretty cool.
Ya, it's cool that they'll pay your med deductible if you're wearing their product. But, it could very well be a sale pitch to show confidence in their product (I'm always a skeptic, lol). Per my doc, the CTI's have been around for awhile (still a good brace), but the DJ's are supposedly the newer innovation. Whether they're better, I'm not sure. My doc treats, Pastrana, Ricky Johnson, Shawn White, and others and travels with the US Olympic Volleyball team... I don't so much question his expertise as a knee specialist. But, it could be he's contracted with DJ. I know at one time he RX'd CTI's to patients in the past, but no longer uses their product. I wasn't too happy with my 2nd DJ brace, the neophreme split at the knee (same thing happened to a guy I PT with who wears the same brace). DJ defected it out and replaced it with a new one. Their sports/riding brace (the one we're talking about) is made from a completely different material, carbon-fiber... so hopefully no defective issues. If you decide to get the DJ's, I would ask your doc about the differences between the CTI's vs the DJ's, just so you feel good about your choice.


I actually thought that the braces allow me to grip harder as it doesn't hurt as much. The only bad thing is that you'll wear out your shroud graphics and pants quicker.

One other thing. Some people always say that braces will break your femur and such. Don't know if that true or not, but I've had a get off were I know I would've super hyper-extended my knee. Don't really remember how it happened but the damage was a very sore right knee, a really nasty bruise on my lower leg where the brace transferred the load, and a torn labrum in the right shoulder. It hurt like :foul: and couldn't walk on it for a day, plus that night it swelled up like a balloon and my shoulder became unbearable so off to the ER, then a specialist. :cry: Back on the bike a month and a half later.:banana: :ride:
:lol: That doc was a little different though, he was like "ahh if it doesn't hurt to bad go for it". :thumb: Sweet :smirk:
Sounds like the brace was a save for you on that one, that's a good thing! Also, good to know about the gripping. :thumb: Hopefully, the DJ will be just as comfortable. And... the shrouds/gear get thrashed anyway, right, lol. Yes, I've heard about the femur deal. I don't know if this was an isolated incident or if there's been several. I think if there were multiple cases of this occurring, the brace would be obsolete. Statistically, I'm thinking the benefit of protecting the ligaments vs the odds of a traumatic forceful crash where the load of transfer is enough to break a bone is going to be much lower (I hope). There's just no good injury to have, I haven't broken a major bone yet (knock on wood). But, I do know I never want to repeat this injury again. No matter how good they are at repairing your knee, there's just no substitute for your OEM parts. I also, don't know how common actual knee injuries are in this sport, seems we hear more often about arms and shoulder injuries. A brace could be very well be overkill, and I honestly think the assault done to my knee did not fit what actually happened. Most of my injury and damage was already there, and my little dab down was just enough to push things over the edge. But, now that's it's done, I have no choice but to protect this area for awhile and will wear braces... hopefully, no broken bones to follow. :thumb:
 
More info:

Not ruling out CTI's as a guard/brace choice...

Leaving PT yesterday, my PT guy was speaking with some reps (I had no idea these guys were from Innovation Sports, otherwise I would've stuck around). Anyway... I spoke with my PT guy last night and he asked me if I was getting the CTI's. I told him my ortho recommended the DJ's and that the rep had called once, but hadn't scheduled a fitting yet.

My PT guy went on to explain that a recommendation point for the CTI's is... they may offer a better patella fit (meaning their guard attachment). After this conversation, I now have more questions to mow over with my ortho, before I select a brace. My PT guy is going to discuss DJ's vs CTI's on Monday with my doc. I also don't know if this is a newer revised CTI brace. If anyone has an interest in a brace/guard combo, I'll post any new info when I receive (maybe this needs it's own thread??). Not tryin to hijack Travace :thumb: ... just another view/option on protecting our OEM parts in our knees. Stay tuned...
 

James

Staff member
Sounds like the brace was a save for you on that one, that's a good thing!......Yes, I've heard about the femur deal. I don't know if this was an isolated incident or if there's been several. I think if there were multiple cases of this occurring, the brace would be obsolete. Statistically, I'm thinking the benefit of protecting the ligaments vs the odds of a traumatic forceful crash where the load of transfer is enough to break a bone is going to be much lower (I hope).
It had to have worked/helped, especially with that big ole bruise being there.

I think the knee brace/femur is the same as the neck brace/clavicle argument. :noidea: Which do you prefer? I'm defiantly picking the clavicle, but still not sure about the femur/knee. I've screwed up my knees before, however I've heard that femurs can be a real :bleep: themselves. And for the record I don't want to find out either.
There's just no good injury to have, I haven't broken a major bone yet (knock on wood). But, I do know I never want to repeat this injury again. No matter how good they are at repairing your knee, there's just no substitute for your OEM parts. I also, don't know how common actual knee injuries are in this sport, seems we hear more often about arms and shoulder injuries. A brace could be very well be overkill
:thumb: So true.

:noidea: I think it's more common then we realize, heck I got another buddy out right now with his MCL & ACL messed up. His was also in the whoops (damn I hate those) and he ended up breaking/destroying his brace.

I don't there's any such thing as "overkill" on safety gear. :smirk:
My PT guy went on to explain that a recommendation point for the CTI's is... they may offer a better patella fit (meaning their guard attachment). After this conversation, I now have more questions to mow over with my ortho, before I select a brace. My PT guy is going to discuss DJ's vs CTI's on Monday with my doc. I also don't know if this is a newer revised CTI brace. If anyone has an interest in a brace/guard combo, I'll post any new info when I receive (maybe this needs it's own thread??). Not tryin to hijack Travace :thumb: ... just another view/option on protecting our OEM parts in our knees. Stay tuned...
That would be very important for me, if I remember right the CTI's are more like the off the self Asterisk braces. :thumb:
 
Met with the brace guy today at PT. Had the honor and pleasure of PT'g with both Debbie Matthews and her hub over the last few months (I'd put her on iconic equivalent of Pastrana in women's mx, if interested, her bio: http://www.wsmxinc.com/trainerbios.htm . She gave some helpful insight on her past experience with braces.

The basic function of all braces is to keep your femur/tib in the best alignment possible, and to help protect against abnormal type shifting of the knee. When our knee moves out of this alignment range, either by sudden forward force and/or twisting, we put our ligaments at risk for strain/stretching, frays, tears and/or complete rupture.

The Don Joy brace design is just a little different. It supports the knee by keeping the knee in a preloaded position, meaning... in the event of either a twisting, forward shift, or side to side motion... the force/energy that would normally hit the ligament area of the knee is transfer away because the knee is preset to remain forward (preloaded) and helps to prevent twisting and/or hyperextension. The location of the calf bar on the DonJoy brace is located behind the leg (not the front like CTI). The thigh bar is the same, located in the front. This is hard to explain without a demo, not sure if I'm even explaining this correctly. Basically, what you want in a brace is to prevent not only twisting, but hyperextension, the DonJoy keeps you hypo-positioned. The other feature I like... and this was explained by Debbie Matthews hub is: on her CTI's, the calf bar sits right on top of your tib, which we know does not have as much meat as the back of our calf's. Apparently, Debbie's CTI brace has severely bruised this front area of her tib from hard forward impacts/motions and when she's cased jumps. Having the bar located behind (back of the calf in your meaty area) offers more protection. I felt this was a good point.

I selected the DonJoy Defiance III, which is DJ's latest design and will get the knee/shin guard attachment. The brace will be made low to work with both moto and/or ski boots. Had the rep measure both knees, if my insurance doesn't pay for the 2nd brace, a significant deal/reduction will be offered. Going to be weird riding with a brace. :(

Here's some basic info on DJ's moto brace, if any one needs...

http://www.betterbraces.com/donjoy-defiance-iii-custom-knee-brace
 

James

Staff member
Thanks for the update. :thumb: :ride:
Apparently, Debbie's CTI brace has severely bruised this front area of her tib from hard forward impacts/motions and when she's cased jumps. Having the bar located behind (back of the calf in your meaty area) offers more protection. I felt this was a good point.
I've noticed this on my Asterisks, I've been trying to figure out how to get more padding on it. :bonk:
Going to be weird riding with a brace. :(
It doesn't take long until you'll feel "naked" without them on while riding, just like a neck brace. :thumb:
 
Thanks for the update. :thumb: :ride:

I've noticed this on my Asterisks, I've been trying to figure out how to get more padding on it. :bonk:

It doesn't take long until you'll feel "naked" without them on while riding, just like a neck brace. :thumb:
Welcome :thumb: ... I just posted this info FWIW, hopefully no one visits a knee injury like I had. Not sure how to pad the Asterik's, maybe velco a fuzzy something around it, IDK.. lol.

Yup.. one look at surgery pics clears the getting used to factor real quick. :smirk::cry::thumb:
 
it didnt take very long at all for me to get use to the thor knee pad i got. not even half way through the first day of riding with them it just felt right.

I did wear a blister into the knee that got scraped up in my crash tho. The skin there is still not full 100% and after i ride with the knee pad on it leaves nasty white skin in there :puke:

ohh and BTW post 1000 :clap: or :picard: one or the other i guess
 
it didnt take very long at all for me to get use to the thor knee pad i got. not even half way through the first day of riding with them it just felt right.

I did wear a blister into the knee that got scraped up in my crash tho. The skin there is still not full 100% and after i ride with the knee pad on it leaves nasty white skin in there :puke:

ohh and BTW post 1000 :clap: or :picard: one or the other i guess
Welcome to 1000 land :thumb:
 
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