All Johnson Valley EIS

rezrider

rezrider

WINGNUT:
Just keep in mind all these comments, questions and concerns are meaningless here... take them to a meeting to be heard. :prof:
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There was no "being heard" at this meeting...For those of you who've never attended one of these (for this particular cause..me being one) it isn't a sit down and listen to what they have to say...rather it was a a show and tell, Q & A held one on one, small group on one, etc with "specialists" for certain areas involved in this take over explaining what they know using charts and pictures, topographical maps, etc. This being my first time I wasn't sure what to expect so I did a lot of listening at various stations to get other peoples view points...ALL similar or the same as ours. Everyone is frustrated that this is happening, why is it necessary? Why hear? Why now, Isn't the existing base good enough? etc. I will try and cover what I gathered while I was there. I ran into Timo and Rolls (aka: skippy) on my way out, they were coming in. OH...and in order for us to USE this land we would have to get permits through the Marine Corp...I can only assume it would be easier than the BLM but I don't want to even go there yet.

There are now 6 proposals (actually 7)...the 6th consisting of them taking the BLM area we are concerned with 2 months out of 12 and performing their "LIVE FIRE" excersizes/manuevers on 75% of that area which would be the North by Northwest area (from the existing base boundaries up to and above bessimer mine road over to camp rock road...that would be OFF LMITS 100% of the time...no public access due to safety concerns of unexploded ordinance. The lower section (25% or less including the Hammers, Means and the dunes...that's about it) would be opened back up 10 out of 12 months. I would expect to see them taking that last portion away after a year or 2 saying they just can't perform at their fullest without it. What was explained to us WHY they want that particular area is...so they can perform a full on battallion attack of 15k troops, machinery and equipment across without having to break formation at any time. The proposed sections to the east and south would not allow that so they are the least of their hopes. He did insist that IF we want to fight this we MUST document it otherwise it falls on deaf ears. What started this whole mess was a bunch of individuals not familiar with the recreational community (the off road world) therefore they thought why not take that area, it's open, not being used, no residences, paved roads, gas lines, etc...it wasn't until they STAKED THEIR CLAIM did they understand the impact it's caused. I've attached a website they offered us www.marines.mil/unit/29palms/las there is a comment section to voice your opinion...PLEASE DO THIS. we're told because of their being unaware of OUR use and how THEIR use would impact all of us they're wanting to hear this. They don't want to be viewed as THE BAD GUYS! Could all a front so we hear what they want us to hear however, that's what we've got to go on. Included in all of this...IF they do take over the land immediately following that will be the environmentalists closing down certain areas within those boundaris due to wilderness (flora & fauna). NOW, with that known I asked the ECO guy what would happen if they DIDN'T take the land...what happens with the enviro-situation. He said it would go back to the norm HOWEVER, he wanted me to know that behind that will be the "alternate energy" groups moving in...OH BOY!

I've taken up enough space here so if I've left anything out (which I'm sure I have) maybe Timo or Rolls or anyone else that attended :devil: can fill it in. :ride: and :USA: can't we all just get along.......Separately? and the 7th proposal is DO NOTHING...

REZ
 
timoyz

timoyz

I drove by Ontario High at 5:00 on Wednesday, and the parking lot was packed. When we arrived it was still pretty full, along with a crowded gym, and one of the staff told us that it had died down tremendously, so it sounds like our turnout was fairly strong. Last night was Victorville, and that I would think would be the big one. They cut down tremendously the amount of JV they are wanting on the proposals, and mostly only talking about taking from Melville dry, East. Then there is #3, where they go East from the base, and leave JV alone all together. But there is #1, that one of the Colonels said is the one they find ideal, it only leaves us 9% of JV, I think around 14k acres. Then hearing from another of the staff, all though it wasn't displayed, there is #7, that they take nothing at all, and look at other sites. In my letter, I urged #7, and then said if all else fails, go for #3. We still have a couple weeks to get the comments in, so if you haven't done it, do it now. :prof:

http://www.marines.mil/unit/29palms/las/Pages/default.aspx
 
530ktm

530ktm

I am a member on some Jeep forums too and they are all affected by this take over as well. We have a lot of Jeepers signing the petitions trying to keep this area open. :thumb:
 
timoyz

timoyz

There was a upset Jeeper there, because basically, all the proposals where they'll take some JV, they take the Hammers. He was pissed, and said take all of JV, he didn't care about everyone else, just leave him the Hammers. :smirk:
 
rezrider

rezrider

timoyz:
There was a upset Jeeper there, because basically, all the proposals where they'll take some JV, they take the Hammers. He was pissed, and said take all of JV, he didn't care about everyone else, just leave him the Hammers. :smirk:
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Might have beenthe same guy they talked about Tuesday in 29 Palms...although he means well, they don't need to hear that kind of "proposal"...CUZ, the way I see it is, if they take any of it, it'll be a matter of time before they take the rest...:prof:...:foul:
 
cleonard

cleonard

timoyz:
I drove by Ontario High at 5:00 on Wednesday, and the parking lot was packed. When we arrived it was still pretty full, along with a crowded gym, and one of the staff told us that it had died down tremendously, so it sounds like our turnout was fairly strong. Last night was Victorville, and that I would think would be the big one. They cut down tremendously the amount of JV they are wanting on the proposals, and mostly only talking about taking from Melville dry, East. Then there is #6, where they go East from the base, and leave JV alone all together. But there is #1, that one of the Colonels said is the one they find ideal, it only leaves us 9% of JV, I think around 14k acres. Then hearing from another of the staff, all though it wasn't displayed, there is #7, that they take nothing at all, and look at other sites. In my letter, I urged #7, and then said if all else fails, go for #6. We still have a couple weeks to get the comments in, so if you haven't done it, do it now. :prof:

http://www.marines.mil/unit/29palms/las/Pages/default.aspx
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I couldn't get out of work early enough to make it to Victorville last night. Not sure it matters since all of the info appears to be available online.

About option #7. It's a requirement of the NEPA process to consider a no action alternative. It's not realistic that they will choose it. It's pretty much a wasted letter if all you say it #7 as that's not what will happen. Anyhow the whole thing looks pretty bad. From what I can tell it's looking like #6 is what's going to be chosen. There are some gems out way out there in JV and those go away with #6 as far as I can see. It's going to be a sad day when that area closes.
 
rezrider

rezrider

cleonard:
I couldn't get out of work early enough to make it to Victorville last night. Not sure it matters since all of the info appears to be available online.

About option #7. It's a requirement of the NEPA process to consider a no action alternative. It's not realistic that they will choose it. It's pretty much a wasted letter if all you say it #7 as that's not what will happen. Anyhow the whole thing looks pretty bad. From what I can tell it's looking like #6 is what's going to be chosen. There are some gems out way out there in JV and those go away with #6 as far as I can see. It's going to be a sad day when that area closes.
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The reason they add # 7 is IN THE EVENT we speak (write) loud enough that they retract their request of that land! As I had said, I am giving them the benefit of the doubt by how they spoke to me i is possible however in reality...doubtful as we all expect. We'll all have to jam into Spangler!
 
timoyz

timoyz

cleonard:
I couldn't get out of work early enough to make it to Victorville last night. Not sure it matters since all of the info appears to be available online.

About option #7. It's a requirement of the NEPA process to consider a no action alternative. It's not realistic that they will choose it. It's pretty much a wasted letter if all you say it #7 as that's not what will happen. Anyhow the whole thing looks pretty bad. From what I can tell it's looking like #6 is what's going to be chosen. There are some gems out way out there in JV and those go away with #6 as far as I can see. It's going to be a sad day when that area closes.
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You're right Carl, I must not have had enough coffee when I posted that, either that or I'm a idiot. Number 6 was the proposal the brass is pushing for. It's the one where they'll take our Eastern edge for 2 months out of the year. I don't fall for that either, once they're in, they won't leave. It was numbers 3 and 7 that I wrote positive for in my comment letter. Also we have until the end of May, so everyone needs to talk to whoever will write a letter, and let's get them to go the other way. :prof:
 
Jeff aka BOLT

Jeff aka BOLT

I've been looking at horse property a bit north west of there. Even the horse people are on our side this time and have been fighting it from what land owners out there are telling me. They would rather share trails with us than a tank.
 
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