Other 2011 yamaha xt250 shifter problem

[greatfallpaul]

Hi, I have done a lot of research sprucing up my bike with racks and trail bags and modified my skid plate to eliminate the noise it added (assuming reflecting engine noise upward), and if I can share assistance to anyone, I am happy to do it.

My bike runs perfectly. Shifts perfectly on bike stand with engine off. Shifts fine when cold, but as it warms it either won't go into gears or will get stuck in one. Seems to be pavement much more than dirt, my guess is that the vibration of trail riding that allows whatever is sticking to be kept loose, preventing it from sticking. Once it is totally warmed up, it first won't go into third, then it pretty much only lets me stay in first and second, then finally, it will just get plain stuck in third or forth and this can stay stuck even stopped with engine off, at this point shift lever is locked solid.

Let bike sit for 20 minutes and the problem vanishes for a while. Problem is progressively getting worse. Clutch releases in first 1/3 of pull. In cases where shifter gets stuck in 3rd, I can not shift down with or without clutch, so I don't see how clutch could be related.

I crashed hard a couple months ago but no reason to assume anything broke. It took small hit on oil filter cover but bike did crash hard into rocks. That is the only impact point and bike ran hundreds of miles before this shifting problem developed.

Tranny and also engine make no unusual noise.

I'm gonna take it apart next week when shop service manual arrives unless someone tells me not to and that my problem is somehow exterior.

Being a tradesman, all I can think of is that there is a crack somewhere that is expanding when hot. I would think most likely cast casing would crack before steel components....just a guess. Bike is only 4500 miles old and very well taken care of.

I want to try everything before taking it apart but my visual inspections are not producing anything. If someone can advise a list of sequence of things to check so I can go in the right direction, it would be appreciated. I already ordered the clutch cover gasket.

Thanks, and I'll help anyone who requests my help if I can.

Paul

 

[Mihylo33]

Hi, I have done a lot of research sprucing up my bike with racks and trail bags and modified my skid plate to eliminate the noise it added (assuming reflecting engine noise upward), and if I can share assistance to anyone, I am happy to do it.

My bike runs perfectly. Shifts perfectly on bike stand with engine off. Shifts fine when cold, but as it warms it either won't go into gears or will get stuck in one. Seems to be pavement much more than dirt, my guess is that the vibration of trail riding that allows whatever is sticking to be kept loose, preventing it from sticking. Once it is totally warmed up, it first won't go into third, then it pretty much only lets me stay in first and second, then finally, it will just get plain stuck in third or forth and this can stay stuck even stopped with engine off, at this point shift lever is locked solid.

Let bike sit for 20 minutes and the problem vanishes for a while. Problem is progressively getting worse. Clutch releases in first 1/3 of pull. In cases where shifter gets stuck in 3rd, I can not shift down with or without clutch, so I don't see how clutch could be related.

I crashed hard a couple months ago but no reason to assume anything broke. It took small hit on oil filter cover but bike did crash hard into rocks. That is the only impact point and bike ran hundreds of miles before this shifting problem developed.

Tranny and also engine make no unusual noise.

I'm gonna take it apart next week when shop service manual arrives unless someone tells me not to and that my problem is somehow exterior.

Being a tradesman, all I can think of is that there is a crack somewhere that is expanding when hot. I would think most likely cast casing would crack before steel components....just a guess. Bike is only 4500 miles old and very well taken care of.

I want to try everything before taking it apart but my visual inspections are not producing anything. If someone can advise a list of sequence of things to check so I can go in the right direction, it would be appreciated. I already ordered the clutch cover gasket.

Thanks, and I'll help anyone who requests my help if I can.

Paul

It may be one of these:
Bent shift fork
Bent shift shaft
Bad shift drum or shift drum bearing
Gear shifter bent.

 

[SRAD97750]

As above, the only way to know for sure regarding poor shifting, is to split the cases and inspect.
I also need the photos you're going to take of the job. They are important to me.... -BIG DAN

 

[ossagp]

two things I would suggest:
1. oil change. I like diesel grade 15-40. see if the characteristics change.

2. check play on counter shaft bearing, hot and cold. radial and axial. if that bearing us bad it let's the shaft move enough that gear changes become difficult. the mainshaft bearings can be pretty bad and still get by since it is in the middle if two shafts and us a little
more supported.

lots of endplay on the shafts contribute as well.

worn and bent forks are a consideration always. usually when those are bad I find mine never shift right, but like main bearings I seem to change the two outside ones each time I get inside.

 

[greatfallpaul]

It may be one of these:
Bent shift fork
Bent shift shaft
Bad shift drum or shift drum bearing
Gear shifter bent.

Great, and thanks. please explain how shifter bent can create shifting problems like this. My shifter is possibly bent in a bit. Very interested to learn this. Since it only acts up when bike is fully hot, the insides might be fine. I'm still hoping it is external issue.

And another off the subject question, I was again inspecting things today and wonder why the heck didn't Yamaha put a steel tab off of the frame under the shift shaft where it exits the motor? It would be so easy to weld on a little tab directly under it and eliminate the exposed shift shaft end from taking a hit and plenty of free space. Just curious if anybody has thoughts about that. A large part of my work history is welding.

It may be one of these:
Bent shift fork
Bent shift shaft
Bad shift drum or shift drum bearing
Gear shifter bent.

 

[greatfallpaul]

two things I would suggest:
1. oil change. I like diesel grade 15-40. see if the characteristics change.

2. check play on counter shaft bearing, hot and cold. radial and axial. if that bearing us bad it let's the shaft move enough that gear changes become difficult. the mainshaft bearings can be pretty bad and still get by since it is in the middle if two shafts and us a little
more supported.

lots of endplay on the shafts contribute as well.

worn and bent forks are a consideration always. usually when those are bad I find mine never shift right, but like main bearings I seem to change the two outside ones each time I get inside.

Thank you much. I've tried the stock Yamaha oil and a hibrid oil that is touted as the best at the bike shop. The issue happened with either oil. I am not opening the motor up yet because it runs so good cold. We found the shifter bushing to be dry and did some adjustments. I'm heading out Wednesday to get it hot and see if we got it fixed by making adjustments.

Thanks again

 

[greatfallpaul]

Unrelated, I'm attending Jimmy Lewis Racing two day course for developing trail riding skills in two weeks. I am happy to share or answer questions after that weekend experience.

 

[ossagp]

Thank you much. I've tried the stock Yamaha oil and a hibrid oil that is touted as the best at the bike shop. The issue happened with either oil. I am not opening the motor up yet because it runs so good cold. We found the shifter bushing to be dry and did some adjustments. I'm heading out Wednesday to get it hot and see if we got it fixed by making adjustments.
t
Thanks again

Does the shifter get more resistant to movement?

you can't go wrong with the bike maker's branded oil, but you can sure do just as well for a lot less. so far none of them are making the stuff themselves. the oil change us more if a test.

 

[greatfallpaul]

Does the shifter get more resistant to movement?

you can't go wrong with the bike maker's branded oil, but you can sure do just as well for a lit less. so far none of them are making the stuff themselves. the oil change us more if a test.

Thanks for the quick response. The shifter goes up to go into third but when riding hard you can't feel the click so you think it went into gear and it is still in second. Try again and again and again till messing around you get it to go to third. Then things get worse as the bike warms and finally the shifter moves but doesn't go into or out of the gear it is stuck in.

Only happens when fully warmed up. A guy today found my shifter bushing was dry and needed fresh grease. I don't see this being the cause since I am certainly strong enough to raise a shift lever that isn't perfectly slippery, but I think the theory is that the pedal hadn't gone back down all the way to reset the ratchet for the next click, since that is a spring return. Darn good theory and prognosis and worth a try before I start into areas with gaskets. I'm 50 percent hopeful. Gonna ride it hard Wednesday and see if it is fixed.

 

[Mihylo33]

Great, and thanks. please explain how shifter bent can create shifting problems like this. My shifter is possibly bent in a bit. Very interested to learn this. Since it only acts up when bike is fully hot, the insides might be fine. I'm still hoping it is external issue.

And another off the subject question, I was again inspecting things today and wonder why the heck didn't Yamaha put a steel tab off of the frame under the shift shaft where it exits the motor? It would be so easy to weld on a little tab directly under it and eliminate the exposed shift shaft end from taking a hit and plenty of free space. Just curious if anybody has thoughts about that. A large part of my work history is welding.

It's bent in so it rubs against the case Preventing a full shift. Sometimes even if it's just tweaked it's enough to prevent shifting.

 

[ossagp]

Thanks for the quick response. The shifter goes up to go into third but when riding hard you can't feel the click so you think it went into gear and it is still in second. Try again and again and again till messing around you get it to go to third. Then things get worse as the bike warms and finally the shifter moves but doesn't go into or out of the gear it is stuck in.

Only happens when fully warmed up. A guy today found my shifter bushing was dry and needed fresh grease. I don't see this being the cause since I am certainly strong enough to raise a shift lever that isn't perfectly slippery, but I think the theory is that the pedal hadn't gone back down all the way to reset the ratchet for the next click, since that is a spring return. Darn good theory and prognosis and worth a try before I start into areas with gaskets. I'm 50 percent hopeful. Gonna ride it hard Wednesday and see if it is fixed.

Thanks, I am still not sure where this "bushing" is. I have little familiarity with the 250xt but have had lots to do with it's little brother 225/230. there are a couple of springs that are easy to get at that center the shift mechanism. the springs are circular, only a couple of loops and have extended ends that go one on each side of a pin. you see them with the clutch cover removed and that should expose the end of the shift drum as well. look for play there as well as on the countershaft where the sprocket is attached.

 

[greatfallpaul]

Thanks, I am still not sure where this "bushing" is. I have little familiarity with the 250xt but have had lots to do with it's little brother 225/230. there are a couple of springs that are easy to get at that center the shift mechanism. the springs are circular, only a couple of loops and have extended ends that go one on each side of a pin. you see them with the clutch cover removed and that should expose the end of the shift drum as well. look for play there as well as on the countershaft where the sprocket is attached.

Ok, thanks. I'm taking it out tomorrow and see if it is fixed.

 

[bikerjones]

Ok, thanks. I'm taking it out tomorrow and see if it is fixed.

My 2014 with 4300 miles is doing the same thing, so I'm curious if you found the issue. When I rev it higher I can get it to up shift. Sometimes it is 3rd gear and sometimes 5th. Just started all of sudden and has been getting worse the past couple of days.

 

[bikerjones]

My 2014 with 4300 miles is doing the same thing, so I'm curious if you found the issue. When I rev it higher I can get it to up shift. Sometimes it is 3rd gear and sometimes 5th. Just started all of sudden and has been getting worse the past couple of days.

Fixed! The shifter pedal was definitely sticky and not allowing the pedal to return smoothly after upshift. Removed it and re-greased the pivot bushing/shaft. All good now.