Other Suspension Setup - MX vs Trail

[Trfsrfr]

Whats the difference?
I ask because I'm having some issues at the track with my WR, and I assume it's because it's set up more for the trail.

Now I obviously know that the WR is not really a track bike, but it's similar to a YZ, and until I get my KX250F reassembled (waiting on $$$ for head job) or my YZ looked at (has that ticking noise), this is the bike I have that runs well. But I need to change some things, and money is tightening up right now so I cant drop $300.00 to have someone set it up for me.

I'm having 3 main issues at the track-
1 - I'm bottoming the front suspension. There are a couple table tops and step-ups that I am just too chickenshit to really send it over, and to do anything less means a hard landing. (I actually did send it farther than I ever have over the step-up yesterday and was way out of control on landing. I couldn't make the corner and flew over the berm.)
2 - I'm getting a front-end wobble. I noticed it before a couple months ago, and now again yesterday. It mainly occurred coming over a small crest that goes down into a valley before heading into the step-up. I throttled through it, but it's a little scary having it happen right before that step up ramp. I have heard about lowering my forks in the clamps but haven't done that yet. Right now they're about 7/8" from the top.
3 - (of lesser importance) my handlebar angle issue. I moved them backward in the garage a few days ago, but then incrementally started moving them forward at the track yesterday. A kid I was riding with noticed a big increase in my speed as I moved them forward. It seems to affect my throttle input more than anything and they were just not as comfortable being back as far as I had them. Plus, when they're more to the rear it makes it difficult to fully stand up on the bike. Right now I have the bars set at just over +1, as seen below.

Any input is appreciated.

 

[SRAD97750]

Whats the difference?
I ask because I'm having some issues at the track with my WR, and I assume it's because it's set up more for the trail.

Now I obviously know that the WR is not really a track bike, but it's similar to a YZ, and until I get my KX250F reassembled (waiting on $$$ for head job) or my YZ looked at (has that ticking noise), this is the bike I have that runs well. But I need to change some things, and money is tightening up right now so I cant drop $300.00 to have someone set it up for me.

I'm having 3 main issues at the track-
1 - I'm bottoming the front suspension. There are a couple table tops and step-ups that I am just too chickenshit to really send it over, and to do anything less means a hard landing. (I actually did send it farther than I ever have over the step-up yesterday and was way out of control on landing. I couldn't make the corner and flew over the berm.)
2 - I'm getting a front-end wobble. I noticed it before a couple months ago, and now again yesterday. It mainly occurred coming over a small crest that goes down into a valley before heading into the step-up. I throttled through it, but it's a little scary having it happen right before that step up ramp. I have heard about lowering my forks in the clamps but haven't done that yet. Right now they're about 7/8" from the top.
3 - (of lesser importance) my handlebar angle issue. I moved them backward in the garage a few days ago, but then incrementally started moving them forward at the track yesterday. A kid I was riding with noticed a big increase in my speed as I moved them forward. It seems to affect my throttle input more than anything and they were just not as comfortable being back as far as I had them. Plus, when they're more to the rear it makes it difficult to fully stand up on the bike. Right now I have the bars set at just over +1, as seen below.

Any input is appreciated.
View attachment 31220 View attachment 31221

1- Refresh the fluid in the forks, ensure the quantity is accurate. You can add a little more to prevent bottoming, but they will be slightly more harsh.
2- Try them in the stock configuration? They shouldn't be through the trees AT ALL. That is a way to sharpen the handling, which can cause a headshake when unloaded.
3- I like my bars forward and on tall risers. Do what feels right.
-BIG DAN

 

[2Wheels]

Flush in the clamp always has my front end pushing and vague in corners.
Feels like I'm riding a chopper. I keep them up 8-10mm depending on the bike, just personal preference.

 

[SRAD97750]

Flush in the clamp always has my front end pushing and vague in corners.
Feels like I'm riding a chopper. I keep them up 8-10mm depending on the bike, just personal preference.

Me too, but he's complaining of headshake. -BIG DAN

 

[Trfsrfr]

I moved the forks to almost flush. Manual says .200", and 0.0" for Europe. I ended up somewhere closer to the European setting. I haven't touched the handlebars since my last adjustment at the track.
A few people at the track said I should adjust the forks, turning the doohickey thingys. I have no idea how those things work and will try Dans suggestion of putting in new oil and ensuring the level is correct first.

 

[timoyz]

Correct spring rate for your weight is crucial. That is where you need to start first. If that is correct then you will see differences in oil levels and adjusting your doohickey things.

 

[Trfsrfr]

Correct spring rate for your weight is crucial. That is where you need to start first.

How is this determined? And does this apply to all types of riding?
My goal is to put the lights back on this WR and use it for trail riding once I get my KXF put together. I'm not sure I want to start swapping springs around on this bike...

 

[timoyz]

Figure your riding weight, then go to a spring rate chart to see what you should be at, or close to.

http://www.racetech.com/ProductSearch/1/Yamaha/WR400F/1999

There is a link to do all the fingering, then see if the stock spring you most likely have is close. After that, fluid levels and valving will fine tune it. MX verse trail, no difference, riding style as in aggressive verse cruise around is a big difference, but the spring would remain the same.

 

[MikeinFresno]

yep, right springs and adjust clickers-BUT- it has to be in good condition as well as Dan said. Adding more oil will decrease bottoming. Adding more preload will make them more stiff initially, but not at the end of stroke- the total spring weight doesn't change cuz you preload it-it is what it is. Both or either will sometimes work for this issue. Front end head shake is the handlebars quivering back n forth quickly. This can be scary and a way to deal with when it happens is to gas it to make the front end lite. A cheap way to effect it longer term is to slightly over tighten the head bearings. The correct front springs, rear preload, etc will also affect this.

 

[CDA]

WRs are not track bikes, they are sprung for trail riding and not made for big air or landings. You can make the changes that are being made here, but you will compromise your trail ride. I hear you are putting together a KXF which is more suited for track. I would just slow down on the track and wait for the KXF to be done.

Running the forks down in the triples will help with high speed stability, but take away from quick/sharp turning. I like to run my bars inline with the fork tubes, but that is just me.

 

[Trfsrfr]

Now that it is cooling down a bit I am more inclined to spend some time in the garage. I have everything I need to rebuild the KXF except the $450.00 to have the head done at MX Time. (Maybe I should find a less expensive alternative to get it done quicker.)

I'm not super racy at the track so I know I'm not beating the WR too badly, but it's what I have so I make do with it. In my mind I think it's good for me, much like the way I think learning to play on a shitty guitar with strings a mile off the fretboard is good for a person; learn on that and you can play anything, and when you get on a nice guitar its just that much easier.
I'm trying to apply that analogy to my riding; learn on my big ol' heavy WR, and everything will be easier when I get on the 60-70 lb. lighter KXF.

The head shake is really my main concern cuz it's happened right when I land, and by all rights I should have crashed a couple times already because of it. I'll see how the new fork position feels this coming weekend.
As far as the bottoming, I'll try Dans suggestions first. Messing with the clickers is beyond my expertise at the moment.
Or I guess I could just grow a pair and stay in the throttle a little longer. I'm pretty confident my corner exit speed is fast enough to clear those jumps...
Thank you all for the replies.

 

[2Wheels]

learn on my big ol' heavy WR, and everything will be easier when I get on the 60-70 lb. lighter KXF.

Yes and no. It wont be easy but bikes with tight action respond better to pull-offs and pinch harmonics and guitars with lighter weight and more aggressive spring rates are better suited for seat bounces and brake tapping. Or something
Get the Mx bike where it belongs and you will figur it out.

 

[snowflake]

it depends on the bike/terrain, on my 01 wr250f I run the forks 6 mm up in the clamps, 1st gen yamaha 4 strokes tend to be poor turners, having the forks flush only compounds the issue

 

[Trfsrfr]

bikes with tight action respond better to pull-offs and pinch harmonics and guitars with lighter weight and more aggressive spring rates are better suited for seat bounces and brake tapping. Or something

Well said! I think...

1st gen yamaha 4 strokes tend to be poor turners, having the forks flush only compounds the issue

Ah, maybe thats why they were where they were...

 

[snowflake]

If you have head shake another area to check is steering steam bearings, the way I set mine is I center the bars and tighten till it doesn't flop to either side. Not very scientific I know